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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 494 the 11th of March

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2018 richardsaunders here with you from

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a wonderfully warm not to Mikey

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sunny Sydney Australia episode 490 II

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500 is there now in sight episode 500 in

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and only at 10 weeks I have no idea

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folks no idea at all what I'll do for

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episode 500 but I'll have a chat to the

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other report ISM and coming up on this

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week's show an old friend of mine dr.

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Steven novella from the skeptics guide

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to the universe he's going to be telling

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us about the new book called the

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skeptics guide to universe how to know

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what's really real in a world

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increasingly full of fake always good to

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catch up with Steve novella and The

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Skeptical rogues whenever I can which

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isn't often of course because we live

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it's hard to imagine somebody living

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further away than the skeptical rogues

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to Sydney Australia all the way over

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there and you know mostly in Connecticut

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laughing anyway anyway Steve will also

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be telling us about the side project

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some of the rogues do called alpha

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quadrant six which maybe isn't entirely

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skeptical but it's about reviewing

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science fiction following that it's

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round 2 round 2 of The Skeptical trivia

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night we had a couple of weeks ago at

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Sydney's skeptics in the pub as part of

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Maenads spooky action and round two this

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week will be read out to you by Lara

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Benham and bear in mind this is the

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edited version so the questions come

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very quickly nevertheless you can play

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along and then Lara will read out the

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answers then to round off the show I

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chat to dr. Gleb surplus key who is a

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professor at Ohio State University he's

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going to be telling us about the truth

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pledge and his campaign for truth and

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about his new book the truth seekers

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hand

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a science-based guide is the truth out

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there is the truth in here I got a

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couple of cats behind me maybe they know

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the truth I think they do that interview

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coming up to round off the show now just

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last night Maine I'd come over for

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dinner that's always a YUM an occasion

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and before Maine odd came over we took

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him to get some food at this local

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supermarket and we went into the room of

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cheese in our local supermarket they

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have a special room very cold just the

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cheese may not in a cheese room so I'm

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gonna run downstairs have some cheese on

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toast or crackers come straight back up

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and enjoy with you the rest of the

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skeptic zone

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and joining me now all the way from

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Connecticut you've heard him on the

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skeptics guide to the universe dr. Steve

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novella hello Steve hey Richard how you

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doing I'm doing really well it's so nice

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to catch up with you to have a chat with

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you you've appeared on the the skeptic

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zone before as a guest but very rarely

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in a long time ago yeah yeah we should

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do this more often it's it's fun to me

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you know we were just marveling at the

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fact that we're talking across the

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planet without any delay it's like

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you're in the next room there's no delay

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folks it's weird I'm speaking to Steve

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from about quarter past 10:00 in the

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evening Sidney time and Steve I think

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it's early morning for you yeah it's

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6:00 a.m. the perfect time for global

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communication I thought I'd give you a

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good contact you congratulations on the

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continuing success of the skeptics guide

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to the universe podcast of course and

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it's because of your podcast and the

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rogue's that many people hear about the

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skeptic zone oh that's great yeah so we

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do have a lot of listeners in Australia

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we get to on our media host you know we

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could look at the distribution of our

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listeners and Australia I think is

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number two Wow and in terms of numbers

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and probably maybe even number one in

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terms of percentage of population right

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all right yeah I think there's a good

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audience here in Australia for this sort

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of thing but let's not talk about the

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podcast for a moment I'm interested

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because I it's come to my attention to

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why I sort of knew this before but it's

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only recently put being put out there

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online that the skeptics guide to the

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universe is not only a podcast it's a

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book what can you tell me about that

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that's right yeah so our our book which

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is the skeptics guide to the universe

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our eponymous book if you will it just

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became available for pre

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order on amazon.com which we're really

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excited about so the book itself will be

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released October 2nd

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it's a hundred percent written as you

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know but you probably know that the the

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process of publishing a book takes a

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long time so now it's the book so yeah

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the books totally done but all the

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logistical stuff has to still happen on

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the publisher end so there's still a lot

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of work to do but we're really excited

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about it we're actually getting started

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on our next books but maybe I'll talk

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about that next time

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wow that that's thinking ahead now what

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why the book and what's it all about

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so we've wanted to produce a book for a

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long time it's it's a complementary

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format I think to the podcast and we've

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also gotten a lot of requests for either

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specifically for us to produce a book or

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just like hey guys what would be the

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best book to give to somebody as an

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introduction to scientific skepticism or

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is there a good reference out there that

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will like systematically go through all

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the critical thinking stuff that you

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guys talk about on the show all the time

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and there yes there are references out

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there there are books out there we you

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know we refer to the demon haunted world

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a lot for example but those are books

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are getting a little dated you know they

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do get data there's been a ton of

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psychological research since some of the

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classic books of skepticism have come

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out and so we said you know what we just

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need to produce the book that everyone's

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asking for you know so we tried to make

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it simultaneously a few things one is a

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great introduction to people who have no

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idea what skepticism is or have no

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involvement with the skeptical movement

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and then number two we wanted it to be a

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great reference for people who are

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listening to the show who already are

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skeptics but want a you know to be walk

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through like this is everything a

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skeptic needs to know right that was

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kind of our approach to the book I

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really just say all right here's like I

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think it's the the first concept was

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like here's 50 things or a hundred

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things or whatever that every

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skeptic needs to know and that's kind of

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the meat of the book is that that part

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of it but then it we wanted to also have

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new stuff in there like I wanted to make

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sure there was some content in there

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that even if you've listened to every

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episode of the SGU there is new stuff in

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that you have never heard before that

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you will learn so that was sort of our

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goal for the book and I think that you

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know we accomplished that we did we can

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we've been working on this book for a

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year and a half with and it's great

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working with an editor I mean if you've

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ever worked with an editor before yes

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but yeah it's a really really ups the

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quality so we're very happy with the

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result oh it certainly does and I have

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worked with editors before I've written

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quite a few books for many many years

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ago of course yeah yeah and things

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occurred to the editor which would never

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occurred to you as the author yeah it's

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just good to have another set of eyes

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you know the the the most interesting

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feedback I got from the editor was I

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don't understand what this means right

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so I wrote something and to me it's

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perfectly clear you know and then look

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at like yeah okay I could see that like

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I'm you know I'm beust I have a a

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vocabulary of not only a scientist but

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of a skeptic and there are certain words

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that are just part of my vocabulary now

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and I've kind of lost a little bit of a

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sense of what a non skeptic somebody who

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isn't steeped in this you know what

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would be a word they would necessarily

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completely understand and so it was good

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to get that level of feedback like you

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need to explain this a little bit more

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detail you know you you can so that

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that's that I think really added a great

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layer to the book where I was like okay

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yeah okay I'll go back and reword this

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so that it makes sense to somebody who

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has never heard these concepts before

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it's a very good point and this point

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was really brought home to me a couple

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of years ago I was very lucky enough to

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see Alan Alda give a talk here in

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Australia and because he's very into

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science communication and the example he

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gave he asked for a volunteer to come up

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from the audience and he showed the

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volunteer a sheet of paper with some

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popular tunes and he said to the

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volunteer to tap out the tune and see

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how many people in the audience know

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which tune your tap

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and of course to the to the volunteer

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tapping out the tune it was obvious what

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tune they were tapping but nobody in the

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audience had a clue and I thought that

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was a very good lesson yeah it's true I

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mean yeah so and if you've ever written

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puzzles for other people or you know and

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I mean have you ever done that or if

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you've ever run any kind of role-playing

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game you realize that you have the whole

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story in your head things make perfect

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sense to you

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yeah and they may be completely opaque

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to somebody else they don't they don't

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have the background information that you

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have so in the context you know what

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everything means but to somebody who

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doesn't know the context they could be

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lost so that's that is a one of the

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challenges of science communication and

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I think why sometimes scientists are not

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the best communicator is because they

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might not know the distinction between

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their jargon and the vernacular and they

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might not know where the deficits are

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and in the concepts that the general

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public understands and we're and that's

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sort of the skill set of the science

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communicator that sort of bridge the gap

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right between highly technical

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information and general public

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understanding and we're always paying

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really close attention to that trying to

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be a check on each other and taking

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feedback from other people and this is

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just another way to do that

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and it really is a very difficult skill

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set you know people you some people may

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become easy to them but there is there's

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a lot of nuance to thinking about how to

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translate very complicated often

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mathematical concepts to everyday

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understanding I'm fascinated by that cuz

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I think it and in the end the research

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actually backs this up you understand a

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topic the best when you have to explain

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it to somebody else mmm you know that's

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a good way of looking at it and I think

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I'd have to agree it makes you rethink

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the topic when you're trying to explain

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it and and you and I and I imagine many

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people out there listening find

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themselves from time to time having to

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explain what skepticism is and how it

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works

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sure now the book is

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I'm casting an eye at Amazon because you

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can pre-order the book at the moment and

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focus on link to that in the show notes

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of course it's called the skeptics guide

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to the universe buy stock the Steven

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novella and The Skeptical rogues now how

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does that work what's the breakdown yes

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so I wrote the bulk of the book and I

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edited the entire book and then the you

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know Bob Jay Evan and Kara contributed

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chapters to the book they each have one

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chapter that is written in their voice

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which I added but I didn't really

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rewrite so it is written in their voice

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and that's the but there's one section

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of the book that's called adventures in

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skepticism where we each tell our own

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adventure like an example of some

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00:13:23,050 --> 00:13:20,029
journey that we went on where we had to

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confront either you know some you know

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pseudoscience and our own beliefs or in

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other people's beliefs or whatever some

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challenge that we faced and that's where

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in each of us has one chapter there we

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even have a chapter by Perry which is a

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reworked article that he had written

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years ago for our newsletter and then

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but the rest of the book so even when

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they contributed the chapters I

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basically had to rewrite every chapter

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because we really needed to be in one

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coherent voice so that they provided all

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the you know the material a lot of the

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structure and the framework and then I

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sort of put it into the consistent voice

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of the book and then when the editor

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went over it it was like she applied and

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even you know more consistent filter you

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know she was like this all has to sound

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the same you know you have to have the

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same format you it really needs to be

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consistent the narrative tone of the

329
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book has to flow very easily and that's

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where the editor you know that's their

331
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job right that's their there their

332
00:14:23,889 --> 00:14:21,829
specialty is putting it all together

333
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because to some extent like we were

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writing chapters right I want to write a

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00:14:29,139 --> 00:14:27,709
chapter on pareidolia right that's a

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00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:29,149
concept everybody should know about it

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00:14:32,980 --> 00:14:31,490
there's a lesson in there to how our

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brain works and how our thinking works

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and it's kind of a story unto itself but

340
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then the editor went back and said yes

341
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:41,120
but okay that's fine but this has to fit

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00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:43,010
to the broader narrative arc of the

343
00:14:47,380 --> 00:14:45,230
whole book and and so that's when it

344
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,390
really started to come together what a

345
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fascinating process that must have been

346
00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:53,630
as absolutely and I'm pleased to know

347
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that you're even working on the next

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book in the series and hopefully it'll

349
00:15:03,220 --> 00:15:01,610
be a long-running series but also when

350
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,230
you're not podcasting and writing books

351
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you you and some of the rogues at least

352
00:15:10,510 --> 00:15:06,890
they're doing a really fun project

353
00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:10,520
called alpha quadrant six which is a

354
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:13,670
video series what can you tell me about

355
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:16,880
that yeah that is our science fiction

356
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:19,970
review show it started because Star Trek

357
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discovery the the latest Star Trek

358
00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:25,400
series was coming out and so I wanted to

359
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do a real-time review show where we

360
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review each episode immediately

361
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afterwards like so it's an after show

362
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,810
right and and we did that we had a lot

363
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of fun with it and you know we started

364
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:38,779
to build an audience there's okay we

365
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:40,490
should just we wanted to see how it went

366
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before we commit it to anything beyond

367
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that but we are having fun with it and

368
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:47,870
you know I think it's being well

369
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:50,450
received so we decided to evolve it into

370
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:52,310
just an all-purpose science fiction

371
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:54,470
review show so yes we're gonna cover

372
00:16:00,430 --> 00:15:56,810
Star Trek Discovery as long as that airs

373
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but we already have a long list of other

374
00:16:05,650 --> 00:16:03,080
shows that we have planned and in the

375
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:05,660
gap between the seasons were going to be

376
00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:11,120
cranking out some other reviews so for

377
00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:14,270
example we may do we've already done

378
00:16:19,510 --> 00:16:16,070
Star Wars by the way we did the review

379
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:19,520
of the latest Star Wars movie and then

380
00:16:26,590 --> 00:16:21,950
so we will be doing new science fiction

381
00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:26,600
movies as they come out but also we will

382
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:28,790
we're going to go do some classic movies

383
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:31,279
we'll do some TV series like we've

384
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:33,290
already had a lot of requests to do the

385
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,630
black mirror yeah bill

386
00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:37,279
yes electric dream so I mean this is

387
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:39,470
endless content out there yes and then

388
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with the real fun ones of them on ones

389
00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:43,339
I'm looking forward to work which we're

390
00:16:48,970 --> 00:16:45,550
working on right now we're going to do

391
00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:48,980
themed reviews like ask an interesting

392
00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:50,870
sci-fi question like how does

393
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:53,720
faster-than-light travel work in science

394
00:16:57,460 --> 00:16:54,710
fiction

395
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:57,470
and which of them are plausible which

396
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:00,620
are not plausible does the math work out

397
00:17:06,070 --> 00:17:03,400
you know and then like doing sort of a

398
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:06,080
science of science fiction kind of stuff

399
00:17:08,860 --> 00:17:07,010
with those kind of things how do

400
00:17:10,449 --> 00:17:08,870
blasters work what's what are the

401
00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:10,459
energies involved you know what would

402
00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:12,110
really be required to make this happen

403
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:15,230
etc OOP so we'll have a lot of fun with

404
00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:17,510
it that way I mean I think those are

405
00:17:21,610 --> 00:17:20,060
always I think our most popular segments

406
00:17:23,770 --> 00:17:21,620
is when we do the science of science

407
00:17:28,270 --> 00:17:23,780
fiction because that's I think what we

408
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:28,280
have that's that's you know in our sweet

409
00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:30,050
spot to add to it causally obviously

410
00:17:34,660 --> 00:17:31,430
there's a ton of people out there doing

411
00:17:36,490 --> 00:17:34,670
science fiction review and there's a lot

412
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:36,500
of science fiction urns out there it's

413
00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:39,410
very popular but you know we where we

414
00:17:43,870 --> 00:17:41,720
are skeptics you know we're skeptics and

415
00:17:45,850 --> 00:17:43,880
science enthusiasts reviewing science

416
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:45,860
fiction so we're gonna try to really

417
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:49,010
maximize that angle of it well I as you

418
00:17:53,980 --> 00:17:50,570
say there's endless content out there

419
00:17:55,870 --> 00:17:53,990
and there really is now endless content

420
00:17:58,780 --> 00:17:55,880
out there I noticed the platforms like

421
00:18:00,520 --> 00:17:58,790
Netflix seem to be generating in endless

422
00:18:02,620 --> 00:18:00,530
things and I quite like these series you

423
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,630
have electric dreams I was very

424
00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:04,880
impressed with that one right yeah yeah

425
00:18:08,740 --> 00:18:06,680
there's did right with the the cable

426
00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:08,750
companies now producing the original a

427
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:10,520
lot of original content I mean there's

428
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:12,970
so much out there it's altered carbon

429
00:18:17,860 --> 00:18:16,070
and then I mean and then really good too

430
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:17,870
there's really good science fiction on

431
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:20,210
TV now you know it really is a golden

432
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,880
age just looking back over the course of

433
00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:25,120
my life like the last 50 years there's

434
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:27,680
definitely been some dry spells there's

435
00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:29,810
been the occasional you know really good

436
00:18:34,510 --> 00:18:32,150
series but now it's like an

437
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:34,520
embarrassment of riches it really is out

438
00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:35,870
there yeah it really is

439
00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:37,580
well though I must say at the moment I'm

440
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:39,020
getting a kick out of rewatching my

441
00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:42,310
favorite Martian so there you go yeah

442
00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:44,300
maybe we'll review that one we'll have

443
00:18:48,430 --> 00:18:46,150
you on the show to review that one oh I

444
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,440
love it it just brings back the most

445
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:50,480
wonderful memories folks the book is

446
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:52,910
called the skeptics guide to the

447
00:18:58,210 --> 00:18:55,310
universe no surprise there by dr. Steven

448
00:19:00,190 --> 00:18:58,220
novella and The Skeptical rogues again

449
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:00,200
we'll link to that in the show notes you

450
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:02,330
can you can pre-order that now Steve I

451
00:19:07,420 --> 00:19:05,150
think yeah you could pre-order it now we

452
00:19:08,409 --> 00:19:07,430
are encouraging our listeners to

453
00:19:10,899 --> 00:19:08,419
pre-order because

454
00:19:13,330 --> 00:19:10,909
that will help launch the book you know

455
00:19:15,849 --> 00:19:13,340
that the pre-orders count in the first

456
00:19:17,289 --> 00:19:15,859
week of sales so and the way that it's

457
00:19:19,749 --> 00:19:17,299
really interesting what we discovered

458
00:19:22,269 --> 00:19:19,759
also about the the publishing industry

459
00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:22,279
is interesting because you know the

460
00:19:28,509 --> 00:19:25,879
books are the the book market has become

461
00:19:31,509 --> 00:19:28,519
a lot tighter in with the you know in

462
00:19:33,489 --> 00:19:31,519
the last couple of decades with you know

463
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:33,499
the with social media and Internet and

464
00:19:36,639 --> 00:19:35,090
everything in digital content people

465
00:19:38,349 --> 00:19:36,649
aren't buying as many books so the

466
00:19:40,210 --> 00:19:38,359
margins are a lot thinner so when the

467
00:19:42,489 --> 00:19:40,220
but the publishers do is they really

468
00:19:44,919 --> 00:19:42,499
only put they're promoting resources

469
00:19:47,889 --> 00:19:44,929
behind books that do well in the first

470
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:47,899
week or two and so that's that's the

471
00:19:53,499 --> 00:19:51,590
whole game so we really are hoping that

472
00:19:55,299 --> 00:19:53,509
people who want the book are gonna

473
00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:55,309
preorder it so that we get a big pulse

474
00:20:00,879 --> 00:19:58,369
on sales and that will help launch the

475
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:00,889
book and hopefully you know not just

476
00:20:08,889 --> 00:20:05,090
this book but a whole series of books so

477
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:08,899
and I do think that you know if you like

478
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:10,609
listening to this show if you're you

479
00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:12,590
know a skeptic if you have people in

480
00:20:16,060 --> 00:20:13,700
your life that you want to make more

481
00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:16,070
skeptical this this book is designed to

482
00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:19,429
be the perfect intro to that it sounds

483
00:20:23,889 --> 00:20:21,190
just the ticket Steve I'll be certainly

484
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:23,899
pre-ordering my copy to exist again

485
00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:26,720
folks once again folks I'll link to that

486
00:20:31,899 --> 00:20:29,029
on the show notes and dr. Steven novella

487
00:20:33,249 --> 00:20:31,909
all the way there on the other side of

488
00:20:35,259 --> 00:20:33,259
the planet where you're just starting

489
00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:35,269
your day's work thank you very much

490
00:20:51,230 --> 00:20:36,680
thank you Richard

491
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,090
greetings listeners it's me captain

492
00:20:59,370 --> 00:20:56,799
disillusion on my youtube channel called

493
00:21:01,649 --> 00:20:59,380
captain disillusion I got the

494
00:21:03,690 --> 00:21:01,659
disillusion analyzed viral videos of the

495
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:03,700
strange and unbelievable I explained how

496
00:21:08,190 --> 00:21:06,220
interframe video compression 3d motion

497
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:08,200
tracking and stock V effects elements

498
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:10,750
prove that Justin Bieber is not a secret

499
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,970
reptilian alien that those videos of

500
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:14,799
ghost cars are just unintentional

501
00:21:18,539 --> 00:21:16,809
optical illusions and that lightning did

502
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:18,549
not strike a few feet away from a girl

503
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:20,380
on a beach as we saw in the news I'm

504
00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:23,110
real fun at parties my best friend is a

505
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:26,380
lens flare dimmer switch disillusion I

506
00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:28,240
dunno other people sometimes they even

507
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:29,500
show up in my videos

508
00:21:34,259 --> 00:21:31,870
people like skepticisms grandpa James

509
00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:34,269
Randi serve de Soleil Acrobat Erica

510
00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:36,340
Lin's weight loss enthusiast Penn

511
00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:38,500
Jillette and the actual Beekman from

512
00:21:42,659 --> 00:21:40,600
Beakman's world I hope you'll check out

513
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:42,669
my adventures interact with me in a

514
00:21:47,399 --> 00:21:44,799
platonic way and even consider becoming

515
00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:47,409
a patron of my work you can do all that

516
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:50,200
and more on YouTube or at Captain

517
00:22:03,700 --> 00:21:59,980
his main art spooky action at the

518
00:22:08,419 --> 00:22:06,169
may not here to introduce you to round

519
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:08,429
tube the trivia quiz we held with Sydney

520
00:22:13,399 --> 00:22:11,039
skeptics in the pub are you excited

521
00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:13,409
20 more questions coming away how did

522
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:17,179
you go last week ah I heard you a slack

523
00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:19,620
anyway we had people riding in to the

524
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:21,390
sceptic zone with their scores no one

525
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:24,270
said they got 20 out of 20 no one said

526
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:26,460
they got 20 out of 20 but if you were

527
00:22:32,649 --> 00:22:29,850
over 15 out of 20 not bad you would be

528
00:22:35,659 --> 00:22:32,659
considered more than slightly skeptical

529
00:22:41,289 --> 00:22:35,669
this week your trivia MOOC I'm sorry

530
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:44,480
in which city did the bird skeptics in

531
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:48,330
the pub event take place in which city

532
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:50,610
to the first skeptics in the pub events

533
00:22:59,149 --> 00:22:56,520
take place question two silence thing

534
00:23:01,340 --> 00:22:59,159
wrote a book about the mathematics used

535
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:01,350
in which popular love long-running TV

536
00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:05,820
show question three

537
00:23:10,729 --> 00:23:08,190
I'm going to give you multiple choice on

538
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:10,739
this at the end which popular Australian

539
00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:13,710
magazine publish a fake Nostradamus

540
00:23:18,889 --> 00:23:15,960
portraying on its back to my work at

541
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:18,899
these following the 9/11 attacks was it

542
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:21,960
new idea perfumers Women's Day woman

543
00:23:26,269 --> 00:23:23,460
that would lead but all the New Age

544
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:26,279
monthly run through the board game by

545
00:23:37,729 --> 00:23:29,970
the new idea Women's Day Women's Weekly

546
00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:37,739
or the New Age monthly question for what

547
00:23:47,389 --> 00:23:42,389
do the initials si si si ope stand for

548
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:47,399
what do the initials si si si si si o P

549
00:23:57,889 --> 00:23:51,210
stand for Sox icon

550
00:23:59,419 --> 00:23:57,899
Cyclops or even question 5 what score do

551
00:24:03,519 --> 00:23:59,429
at least some of the Australian cricket

552
00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:08,899
question 6 which two animals we use to

553
00:24:14,899 --> 00:24:11,580
create the Fiji mermaid a hoax displayed

554
00:24:16,729 --> 00:24:14,909
by PT Barnum so which two animals is to

555
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:16,739
create the Fiji mermaid you need both of

556
00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:25,010
questions save it and you'll get a point

557
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:27,510
for each of the ones which two countries

558
00:24:33,380 --> 00:24:30,570
are most associated with this scam of

559
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:33,390
psychic surgery which two countries are

560
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:35,310
most associated with the scanner of

561
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:39,510
psychic surgery I think it's on question

562
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:42,780
eight campbelltown just outside Sydney

563
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:46,370
holds an annual festival of whose ghost

564
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:49,320
sample town just outside Sydney holds an

565
00:25:07,030 --> 00:24:56,730
annual festival of whose ghost I can

566
00:25:11,610 --> 00:25:08,670
[Music]

567
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:11,620
the town of Roswell the town of Roswell

568
00:25:20,289 --> 00:25:14,470
favorite stories of crashed UFOs lies

569
00:25:28,749 --> 00:25:24,009
questions provided that the moon

570
00:25:30,969 --> 00:25:28,759
landings were not faith controversy when

571
00:25:33,639 --> 00:25:30,979
the last option how many people have

572
00:25:39,489 --> 00:25:33,649
walked on the moon how many people have

573
00:25:42,339 --> 00:25:39,499
walked on the moon question 11 the

574
00:25:44,469 --> 00:25:42,349
ideomotor effect or action is most

575
00:25:47,879 --> 00:25:44,479
commonly associated with which a

576
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:47,889
mysterious plane so the ideomotor effect

577
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:50,809
is most that mostly associated with

578
00:26:04,649 --> 00:26:00,320
which and steers claim question 12 who

579
00:26:06,639 --> 00:26:04,659
is credited with creating homeopathy

580
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:06,649
there is credited with creating

581
00:26:15,289 --> 00:26:10,730
homeopathy Britain

582
00:26:17,899 --> 00:26:15,299
question 13 the latest Korean skeptic

583
00:26:20,659 --> 00:26:17,909
Barry Williams was in which branch of

584
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:20,669
the Israeli military the lates

585
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:22,740
Australian skeptic Barry Williams was in

586
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:30,440
question 14 another question about James

587
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:33,809
Randi James Randi often wears a pin on

588
00:26:39,259 --> 00:26:36,450
his lapel of a mythical flying animal

589
00:26:41,509 --> 00:26:39,269
what animal is it like so James Randi

590
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:41,519
optimiser pin on here the palace of a

591
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:44,720
mythical flying animal what animal is it

592
00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:47,870
question 15

593
00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:53,480
the lunar base the landing sites of

594
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:57,529
Apollo 11 in 1969 so what it's the name

595
00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:00,559
of the lunar base the landing sites of

596
00:27:13,450 --> 00:27:09,830
Apollo 11 in 69 question 16 what is the

597
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:13,460
name of the 2013 film based around an

598
00:27:19,870 --> 00:27:16,330
edge and Lorraine Warren investigation

599
00:27:21,659 --> 00:27:19,880
what is the name of the 2013 film based

600
00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:21,669
around an egg and Lorraine Warren

601
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:31,880
investigation question 17 western

602
00:27:36,639 --> 00:27:34,240
astrology which of the three earth

603
00:27:38,289 --> 00:27:36,649
zodiac signs and you'll get a point for

604
00:27:40,510 --> 00:27:38,299
each but you can only write down three

605
00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:40,520
so what's the astrology which are the

606
00:27:52,899 --> 00:27:48,190
[Music]

607
00:27:56,769 --> 00:27:52,909
question 18 movie what movie is credited

608
00:27:59,349 --> 00:27:56,779
for the UFO craze at the late 1970s what

609
00:28:07,389 --> 00:27:59,359
movie is credited with the UFO craze of

610
00:28:10,629 --> 00:28:07,399
the late 1970s question 19 I apologize

611
00:28:17,019 --> 00:28:10,639
this triskaidekaphobia is the fear of

612
00:28:20,529 --> 00:28:17,029
what the trip triskaidekaphobia question

613
00:28:22,869 --> 00:28:20,539
20 the final question around - what is

614
00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:22,879
the name of the mysterious lights that

615
00:28:27,729 --> 00:28:24,830
are sometimes reported in east railey

616
00:28:32,420 --> 00:28:27,739
and out back the name of the mysterious

617
00:28:41,420 --> 00:28:34,990
[Music]

618
00:28:45,870 --> 00:28:43,440
that was round two

619
00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:45,880
how did you think you went but papers of

620
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:51,220
the pub being passed around now neck

621
00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:53,590
beard neck beard neck beard they're

622
00:29:00,020 --> 00:28:55,540
being passed around now for the marking

623
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:00,030
and here are the answers right marking

624
00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:10,750
quickly London yeah the sign of the same

625
00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:19,420
book was based on question 3 the faith

626
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:21,160
Nostradamus core training that it

627
00:29:26,380 --> 00:29:22,690
published with the magazine was called

628
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:31,520
no a new idea now are the impression for

629
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:35,580
the FICO initials is the committee for

630
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:38,610
the scientific investigation of claims

631
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:40,790
of the paranormal

632
00:29:46,690 --> 00:29:43,610
I'll just say a word cite the committee

633
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:46,700
for the scientific investigation of

634
00:30:08,840 --> 00:29:55,760
question 5 the Australian cricket team

635
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:11,460
so to get the point Congressional things

636
00:30:15,660 --> 00:30:13,570
you need to have both the animals this

637
00:30:25,470 --> 00:30:15,670
is the Fiji mermaid it was a monkey and

638
00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:25,480
a fish I questions second the two

639
00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:27,550
countries associated with psychic

640
00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:29,620
surgery and you get point for each one

641
00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:31,780
of these the Philippines is one and

642
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:34,300
Brazil is the other one

643
00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:42,210
question eight it was fish's ghost which

644
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:52,880
question nine Rothwell is in New Mexico

645
00:30:58,590 --> 00:30:54,120
[Music]

646
00:31:02,300 --> 00:30:58,600
I'm gonna come to Mercer questions head

647
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:02,310
of twelve people on the route 12

648
00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:04,900
[Music]

649
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:07,950
question 13 the ideomotor effect

650
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:10,480
disease-associated mostly with divining

651
00:31:19,290 --> 00:31:16,960
or dowsing question 12 and Lee feeding

652
00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:19,300
you the spelling of this one the person

653
00:31:26,770 --> 00:31:21,820
that creates homeopathy is Samuel

654
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:29,620
question 13 Barry Williams was in the

655
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:36,130
Royal Australian ankles question 14

656
00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:40,190
James Ramsay was a TSS but will accept

657
00:31:59,250 --> 00:31:41,990
dissipate because we said the black box

658
00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:04,150
doping anyway the database is called

659
00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:09,590
tranquility base tranquility base you

660
00:32:15,570 --> 00:32:11,960
the questions may see the film based

661
00:32:16,780 --> 00:32:15,580
around engineering Warren is the conger

662
00:32:21,670 --> 00:32:16,790
Iraqi

663
00:32:25,930 --> 00:32:24,430
question 17 and they can have a point

664
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:25,940
for each one of these they get right

665
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:27,650
provide them only written down three

666
00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:29,690
this is the astrology signs the earth

667
00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:39,400
that's three marks if they also write

668
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:48,020
one for each question 18 question 18 UFO

669
00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:50,810
phrase is credited to quasi counters of

670
00:32:59,310 --> 00:32:55,880
the Third Kind to question 1915 upper

671
00:33:04,060 --> 00:32:59,320
phobia is a fear of the number 13

672
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:04,070
well question 20 the mysterious lights

673
00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:13,440
yeah I'm gonna need a mortgage

674
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,860
background as well so if you can add

675
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:16,720
that up for us please put this cool

676
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:22,260
somewhat table come round and flat get

677
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:25,750
well takes just gonna come on up really

678
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:31,140
should take photographs

679
00:33:36,250 --> 00:33:34,070
number one is Eureka

680
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:36,260
[Music]

681
00:33:54,130 --> 00:33:50,720
number two they don't know - I didn't

682
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:54,140
know what I was doing three wisemen

683
00:34:00,370 --> 00:33:56,890
looks biggest paintbrush for school

684
00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:00,380
Richard Wiseman number four is Sylvia

685
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:06,040
Browne number five is Cara Santa Maria

686
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:07,250
okay

687
00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:12,169
number six is Barry Williams seven is

688
00:34:19,389 --> 00:34:14,200
Johnny whoops

689
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:19,399
eight is Eugenie Scott and nine is susan

690
00:34:27,099 --> 00:34:24,770
gerbic that was that second of three

691
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:27,109
trivia rounds next week twenty more

692
00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:30,050
skeptical questions read out by me until

693
00:34:41,910 --> 00:34:35,240
then this is Maynard ha ha is a group

694
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:55,379
[Music]

695
00:35:00,460 --> 00:34:57,880
hello this is Sharon Hill creator of

696
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:00,470
doubtful news.com and the 15 credibility

697
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:03,020
street podcast I have a new book for

698
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:05,270
McFarland publishing called scientifical

699
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:07,370
Americans the culture of amateur

700
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:10,160
paranormal researchers scientifical

701
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:12,770
means attempting to be scientific and do

702
00:35:17,890 --> 00:35:15,410
science but falling short this book is

703
00:35:19,930 --> 00:35:17,900
the first full examination of the rise

704
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:19,940
of amateur research and investigation

705
00:35:24,430 --> 00:35:22,250
groups in America and how they do or

706
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:24,440
don't use science to investigate ghosts

707
00:35:29,740 --> 00:35:27,110
UFOs and cryptids like Bigfoot and Lake

708
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:29,750
Monsters I place these thousands of

709
00:35:34,420 --> 00:35:31,850
paranormal explorers into the historical

710
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:34,430
context of their subject areas chart the

711
00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:36,560
influence of paranormal themed media and

712
00:35:40,930 --> 00:35:38,540
the Internet and examine what it means

713
00:35:43,540 --> 00:35:40,940
to do science and how amateurs can

714
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,550
contribute paranormal believers skeptics

715
00:35:48,190 --> 00:35:45,440
and persons of all opinions in between

716
00:35:50,410 --> 00:35:48,200
will find scientifical Americans to be a

717
00:35:52,750 --> 00:35:50,420
unique view of the modern relationship

718
00:35:54,610 --> 00:35:52,760
between science and society as well as

719
00:35:57,220 --> 00:35:54,620
our engagement with paranormal themes

720
00:35:59,170 --> 00:35:57,230
and popular culture purchase the book

721
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:59,180
through your favorite bookseller or an

722
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:01,520
Amazon Kindle version for more info

723
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:26,870
[Music]

724
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:29,740
and joining me now all the way from Ohio

725
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:32,530
State University it's professor Glenn

726
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:33,610
Sir Persky

727
00:36:38,340 --> 00:36:35,050
it's a pleasure to be on thank you so

728
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:38,350
much for inviting now thank you very

729
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:40,510
much in fact they're you contacted the

730
00:36:44,810 --> 00:36:42,970
skeptic zone a little while ago to let

731
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:44,820
us know about a book you've written

732
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:47,200
before we get to that book can you tell

733
00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:49,450
us a little bit about your your general

734
00:36:57,060 --> 00:36:54,280
background sure so my focus professor an

735
00:36:59,940 --> 00:36:57,070
activist is in truth seeking rational

736
00:37:02,250 --> 00:36:59,950
thinking and wise decision making that

737
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:02,260
means fighting this information and

738
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:04,540
incivility that's plaguing both the

739
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:07,030
United States and your corner of the

740
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,240
world New Zealand Australia and actually

741
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:12,640
everywhere in democracies right now due

742
00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:16,330
to the fact that our information

743
00:37:21,180 --> 00:37:19,150
ecosystem is broken with the rise of

744
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:21,190
social media and digital media so that's

745
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:23,050
the focus of my activism and my research

746
00:37:29,090 --> 00:37:26,080
and I've noticed that you've appeared on

747
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:29,100
many different news and television

748
00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:32,530
programs including here in Australia

749
00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:36,270
where you are appeared as a commentator

750
00:37:42,090 --> 00:37:40,270
mainly on political things is that is

751
00:37:47,010 --> 00:37:42,100
that been your focus in the past mainly

752
00:37:48,660 --> 00:37:47,020
politics no we focused so I run the

753
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:48,670
nonprofit intentional insights at

754
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:51,250
intentional insights org and we focus in

755
00:37:55,770 --> 00:37:53,530
a variety of areas of Troop seeking and

756
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:55,780
rational thinking focus more on the

757
00:38:00,030 --> 00:37:57,850
skeptic community earlier and figuring

758
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:00,040
out how to talk to non skeptics how to

759
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:02,260
communicate effectively but with the

760
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:05,410
rise of fake news and post truth

761
00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:08,050
politics in the last couple of years

762
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:10,420
where that problem has become especially

763
00:38:13,950 --> 00:38:12,070
prevalent we focused most of our

764
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:13,960
attention on politics because we see

765
00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:16,810
that as the area in most need of truth

766
00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:18,760
seeking and rational thinking and the

767
00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:22,060
most danger for our society from a lack

768
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:23,380
of truth seeking in the rational

769
00:38:26,309 --> 00:38:24,400
thinking comes from

770
00:38:29,309 --> 00:38:26,319
domaine so that's what led us to start

771
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:29,319
the pro truth pledge project at pro

772
00:38:33,329 --> 00:38:31,089
truth pledge that org which is a

773
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,339
behavioral science informed tool that

774
00:38:39,299 --> 00:38:36,400
combines crowdsourcing and research to

775
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:39,309
address misinformation and incivility in

776
00:38:43,950 --> 00:38:41,410
democracies around the world including

777
00:38:46,289 --> 00:38:43,960
Australia well I don't think you'd have

778
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:46,299
any arguments of anybody about truth in

779
00:38:53,250 --> 00:38:49,210
politics it seems to be a very very

780
00:38:56,490 --> 00:38:53,260
fluid subject or a very fluid idea in

781
00:38:58,289 --> 00:38:56,500
politics what what the truth is and we

782
00:39:01,950 --> 00:38:58,299
also note that especially with

783
00:39:04,650 --> 00:39:01,960
politicians they sometimes are bound by

784
00:39:06,750 --> 00:39:04,660
deals made and pledges they know they

785
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:06,760
can't keep and then then again the

786
00:39:10,980 --> 00:39:09,010
population sort of understands that yes

787
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,990
well it's of only a political promise so

788
00:39:15,059 --> 00:39:13,200
maybe it's not the truth after all

789
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:15,069
Australia is actually quite a big

790
00:39:19,859 --> 00:39:17,170
problem around the world including in

791
00:39:22,319 --> 00:39:19,869
Australia so the post the pro truth

792
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:22,329
pledge is associated with the post truth

793
00:39:27,420 --> 00:39:23,950
initiative at the University of Sydney

794
00:39:29,819 --> 00:39:27,430
which studies questions around how

795
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:29,829
approach of post true politics the

796
00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:32,440
problems around that and there are a

797
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:34,569
number of people who have accused a

798
00:39:39,029 --> 00:39:36,250
number of government officials in

799
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:39,039
Australia of engaging in misinformation

800
00:39:44,849 --> 00:39:42,130
and incivility so there are politicians

801
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:44,859
who practice these things in Australia

802
00:39:49,319 --> 00:39:47,170
as elsewhere in other democracies and

803
00:39:52,349 --> 00:39:49,329
the point of the pro truth pledge is to

804
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:52,359
gather together all the people who care

805
00:39:57,809 --> 00:39:54,400
about fighting misinformation and

806
00:40:01,529 --> 00:39:57,819
incivility and unite them in a combined

807
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:01,539
effort to address politicians media

808
00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:03,490
figures and others who spread

809
00:40:07,950 --> 00:40:05,950
misinformation and civility because if

810
00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:07,960
you can unite together all the people

811
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:09,880
who care about truth in facts then

812
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,710
they're not separate and then their

813
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:13,599
voice can be really hard and made

814
00:40:17,490 --> 00:40:15,760
significant and impactful and that's

815
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:17,500
what the pro truth pledge at pro truth

816
00:40:22,829 --> 00:40:20,260
pledge at org is about and of course I

817
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,839
was reading about the pro truth pledge

818
00:40:28,049 --> 00:40:25,119
in your book your book is called the

819
00:40:29,370 --> 00:40:28,059
truth seekers handbook what can you tell

820
00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:29,380
me about that how long has that been

821
00:40:35,779 --> 00:40:31,900
available it's been available since

822
00:40:38,190 --> 00:40:35,789
November 23rd of last year and the book

823
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:38,200
basically talks about

824
00:40:42,839 --> 00:40:40,510
why we as human beings believe in lives

825
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:42,849
you know we think of ourselves as

826
00:40:46,829 --> 00:40:44,380
rational and logical creatures

827
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:46,839
especially as skeptics among us but the

828
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:49,210
research shows and this comes from

829
00:40:53,310 --> 00:40:50,950
behavioral science in which one that I'm

830
00:40:56,579 --> 00:40:53,320
an expert that we tend to be driven

831
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:56,589
strongly by emotions and that results in

832
00:41:02,130 --> 00:41:00,400
us believing in falsehoods and this is

833
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:02,140
the field of research called cognitive

834
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:04,480
bias research things like confirmation

835
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:06,609
bias things like backfire effect and I

836
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:08,770
can talk about other phenomena but

837
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:10,690
causes us to believe in falsehoods so

838
00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:12,820
the book helps everyone who cares about

839
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:15,220
truth and facts address the kind of

840
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:17,290
cognitive biases that might cause them

841
00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:20,560
to believe in false words and believe me

842
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:23,980
you know I was a skeptic from when I was

843
00:41:30,540 --> 00:41:27,040
in high school and college I ran as

844
00:41:32,609 --> 00:41:30,550
college club for freethinkers and once I

845
00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:32,619
started researching cognitive biases I

846
00:41:36,690 --> 00:41:34,750
saw how I was falling into them all the

847
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:36,700
time before I started researching them

848
00:41:41,550 --> 00:41:39,130
so it's for everyone who's a skeptic and

849
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:41,560
who cares about truth really cares about

850
00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:44,079
truth in facts and also wants to guide

851
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:46,990
other people and them to orient toward

852
00:41:52,650 --> 00:41:48,730
true facts it has research-based

853
00:41:54,839 --> 00:41:52,660
strategies how we escaped experiments

854
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:54,849
can guide others into doing so because

855
00:41:59,220 --> 00:41:56,770
let's be honest the fact that there's so

856
00:42:01,200 --> 00:41:59,230
much false true politics out there right

857
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:01,210
now and fake news shows that the way

858
00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:04,990
we've been doing it so far is wrong and

859
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:06,940
I noticed there's an interesting series

860
00:42:12,359 --> 00:42:08,980
of chapters in your book sort of based

861
00:42:13,890 --> 00:42:12,369
around when you could use your gut you

862
00:42:16,349 --> 00:42:13,900
know what does your gut tell you we hear

863
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,359
this all the time especially from people

864
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:18,640
in our area of interest which is the

865
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:22,510
paranormal believers who who as far as

866
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:25,119
they are concerned they've already found

867
00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:28,569
the truth they know the truth and we as

868
00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:32,950
skeptics are obviously misguided fools

869
00:42:37,290 --> 00:42:35,260
do you you must know what I'm talking

870
00:42:40,589 --> 00:42:37,300
about when I talk about that sort of

871
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:40,599
thing of course yes there's these sorts

872
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:43,450
of conversations all the time and

873
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:45,849
paranormal is an area you know

874
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:48,880
genetically modified organisms GMOs as

875
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:51,369
an area you know climate skepticism as

876
00:42:54,349 --> 00:42:51,910
an area

877
00:42:57,059 --> 00:42:54,359
various sorts of conspiracy theories and

878
00:43:00,029 --> 00:42:57,069
what I find is really important what I

879
00:43:01,740 --> 00:43:00,039
talk about in the book is to describe

880
00:43:04,620 --> 00:43:01,750
and what the research finds is to figure

881
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:04,630
out the emotions that drive people to

882
00:43:08,609 --> 00:43:06,760
believe in falsehoods because if they

883
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:08,619
believe in falsehoods things that aren't

884
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:11,140
real there are some certain emotions

885
00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:13,390
that are they're satisfying there are

886
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:14,740
certain emotional needs that are being

887
00:43:19,020 --> 00:43:17,410
satisfied by belief in falsehoods and

888
00:43:21,329 --> 00:43:19,030
what you need to do is figure out the

889
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,339
emotions talk about this book how to do

890
00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:23,200
so that causes them to believe in

891
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,390
falsehoods and then show them how they

892
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:27,599
can satisfy these same emotional needs

893
00:43:32,430 --> 00:43:30,730
through facts and reality and that's

894
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:32,440
kind of a subtle thing that we as

895
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:34,089
skeptics really don't practice we

896
00:43:37,950 --> 00:43:36,130
practice just bombarding them over the

897
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:37,960
head with information logical arguments

898
00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:40,270
and that just doesn't work it causes

899
00:43:44,549 --> 00:43:42,760
backfire they either stick they stuck to

900
00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:44,559
their positions and you know you don't

901
00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:46,390
usually you end up not having a real

902
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:48,430
conversation so the book talks about

903
00:43:52,289 --> 00:43:50,170
strategic ways of communicating

904
00:43:54,029 --> 00:43:52,299
effectively to people who believe

905
00:43:56,339 --> 00:43:54,039
falsehoods in order to bring them toward

906
00:43:58,279 --> 00:43:56,349
offense that's interesting and I wonder

907
00:44:01,769 --> 00:43:58,289
what would happen if they themselves

908
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,779
people who maybe believed in something

909
00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:04,000
that we would consider to be a delusion

910
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:05,380
they would read that maybe they would

911
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:07,089
try to use those arguments against

912
00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:08,710
skeptics who knows but there's an

913
00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:10,270
interesting point that you make in the

914
00:44:14,010 --> 00:44:12,460
book and you quote from a movie which is

915
00:44:17,099 --> 00:44:14,020
a [\h__\h] of a good movie called a few

916
00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:17,109
good men and that the quote is you can't

917
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:19,390
handle the truth and I think that's a

918
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:21,970
very good quote to use because it really

919
00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:24,510
makes the point of your book doesn't it

920
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:28,180
yes yes it does oh it needs to the fact

921
00:44:33,870 --> 00:44:31,599
that truth is very much an emotional

922
00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:33,880
thing it's the motive and the reason

923
00:44:38,430 --> 00:44:36,190
that people believe it lies because they

924
00:44:41,970 --> 00:44:38,440
can't handle the truth emotionally so

925
00:44:43,799 --> 00:44:41,980
our aspiration a skeptic should be how

926
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:43,809
to guide them how to guide their

927
00:44:48,089 --> 00:44:46,450
emotions toward believing the facts and

928
00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:48,099
the things that I took that you

929
00:44:52,650 --> 00:44:49,720
mentioned earlier kind of people using

930
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,660
another skeptics great if we if we

931
00:44:56,099 --> 00:44:54,160
believe in falsehoods let them guide

932
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:56,109
guide us there were the facts I mean I

933
00:44:59,069 --> 00:44:57,010
would love that

934
00:45:02,010 --> 00:44:59,079
the strategies that I talked about in

935
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,020
the book only work for getting people to

936
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:04,720
believe in the facts in the truth in the

937
00:45:07,890 --> 00:45:05,710
reality it

938
00:45:09,390 --> 00:45:07,900
work - they're not simply persuasion

939
00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:09,400
rhetorical tactics that's not what

940
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:10,630
they're about this is about

941
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:12,430
collaborative truth-seeking where you

942
00:45:17,010 --> 00:45:14,650
work with somebody else to figure out

943
00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:17,020
the truth the facts the nature of

944
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:19,900
reality and that's what the essence of

945
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:21,910
the book is about now of course you

946
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:23,410
talked you mentioned briefly before

947
00:45:27,810 --> 00:45:25,930
confirmation bias which all skeptics are

948
00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:27,820
very familiar with that concept but

949
00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:30,670
confirmation bias is amplified

950
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,680
especially in the last 10 years or so

951
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:34,960
with the filter bubbles we live in now

952
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:38,050
with things like Facebook and this sort

953
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:42,730
of thing have you seen a rise in the

954
00:45:46,589 --> 00:45:44,800
general problem of people believing in

955
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:46,599
falsehoods because of these filter

956
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:50,050
bubbles absolutely the confirmation bias

957
00:45:55,020 --> 00:45:52,810
is one of the biggest drivers of fake

958
00:45:56,849 --> 00:45:55,030
news and most of politics so the

959
00:46:00,240 --> 00:45:56,859
confirmation bias is a psychological

960
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:00,250
phenomenon where people look for one and

961
00:46:04,490 --> 00:46:02,650
you look for information with matches

962
00:46:07,230 --> 00:46:04,500
conforms to their beliefs and to

963
00:46:10,589 --> 00:46:07,240
interpret information they get in ways

964
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:10,599
it matches their beliefs now if you know

965
00:46:16,589 --> 00:46:13,810
previously everyone just had access to

966
00:46:19,410 --> 00:46:16,599
mainstream news prior to the rise of

967
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:19,420
social media digital media and so they

968
00:46:23,730 --> 00:46:21,940
could still interpret information that

969
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:23,740
in the ways of match their beliefs but

970
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:25,210
they couldn't really look for

971
00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:26,800
information that matched their beliefs

972
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,560
wasn't readily accessible now with the

973
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:31,680
rise of digital media and social media

974
00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:34,510
there are various filter bubbles where

975
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:37,150
people can go to and specifically only

976
00:46:41,370 --> 00:46:38,890
look for information that matches their

977
00:46:43,380 --> 00:46:41,380
beliefs look at the only biased sources

978
00:46:45,859 --> 00:46:43,390
including you know sources around by

979
00:46:48,930 --> 00:46:45,869
Russia today and so on completely fake

980
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:48,940
fake information fake news that matches

981
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:51,910
their gut intuitions and the people who

982
00:46:57,660 --> 00:46:54,670
try to manipulate us know that and they

983
00:46:59,339 --> 00:46:57,670
create these sources they play into

984
00:47:01,500 --> 00:46:59,349
people's confirmation bias and that's

985
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:01,510
kind of one of the things that the pro

986
00:47:06,810 --> 00:47:04,180
truth pledge is meant to address it has

987
00:47:08,310 --> 00:47:06,820
a large variety of strategies so the pro

988
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:08,320
Truth pledge approach you've pledged

989
00:47:13,980 --> 00:47:10,900
that org gets people to commit to

990
00:47:15,930 --> 00:47:13,990
behaviors that are aimed to address the

991
00:47:18,089 --> 00:47:15,940
confirmation bias and various other

992
00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:18,099
biases that cause us to believe in

993
00:47:20,969 --> 00:47:19,569
falsehoods well he is

994
00:47:22,709 --> 00:47:20,979
it's absolutely right and reading

995
00:47:24,449 --> 00:47:22,719
through the book all these points are

996
00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:24,459
very interesting especially for skeptic

997
00:47:30,019 --> 00:47:27,670
especially for someone like me who on

998
00:47:32,789 --> 00:47:30,029
the face of it you know I'm trying to

999
00:47:34,469 --> 00:47:32,799
change people's minds or put the truth

1000
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:34,479
out there the truth as far as I can

1001
00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:36,130
understand it so this is a very

1002
00:47:40,589 --> 00:47:38,140
interesting overview of what the truth

1003
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:40,599
is and how to think about it the book

1004
00:47:46,049 --> 00:47:42,880
folks is called the truth seekers

1005
00:47:49,949 --> 00:47:46,059
handbook bled where can people find that

1006
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:49,959
book they can find it on Amazon so if

1007
00:47:54,329 --> 00:47:52,930
they are participants of Amazon smile

1008
00:47:56,910 --> 00:47:54,339
where are they donate to the nations

1009
00:47:58,319 --> 00:47:56,920
they can go to smelled at amazon.com but

1010
00:48:00,509 --> 00:47:58,329
in the truth seekers handbook a

1011
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:00,519
science-based guide and they should find

1012
00:48:05,549 --> 00:48:03,400
it right there they can also go to the

1013
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:05,559
approach of pledge website at pro truth

1014
00:48:10,439 --> 00:48:08,650
pledge that work find it through there

1015
00:48:11,729 --> 00:48:10,449
and they can find it on the intentional

1016
00:48:14,099 --> 00:48:11,739
insights website the intentional

1017
00:48:15,989 --> 00:48:14,109
insights is nonprofit that runs the pro

1018
00:48:18,029 --> 00:48:15,999
truth pledge and other true for Ian

1019
00:48:21,269 --> 00:48:18,039
subjects intentional insights is

1020
00:48:23,849 --> 00:48:21,279
intentional inside Stork bugs I'll link

1021
00:48:25,499 --> 00:48:23,859
to all those URLs on this week's show

1022
00:48:27,689 --> 00:48:25,509
notes so you can quickly look at that

1023
00:48:30,989 --> 00:48:27,699
and I also link to a couple of videos I

1024
00:48:32,999 --> 00:48:30,999
noticed gleb was kind enough to send me

1025
00:48:35,370 --> 00:48:33,009
where you can see him on action on

1026
00:48:37,979 --> 00:48:35,380
various news networks talking about

1027
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:37,989
politics and the truth well thank you

1028
00:48:41,849 --> 00:48:40,089
very much for your time this morning or

1029
00:48:44,969 --> 00:48:41,859
this afternoon where you are in Columbus

1030
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:44,979
Ohio and maybe we can chat again one day

1031
00:48:49,859 --> 00:48:48,249
about some more truth it will be

1032
00:48:51,779 --> 00:48:49,869
wonderful and I would encourage you

1033
00:48:53,189 --> 00:48:51,789
yourself as a public figure to consider

1034
00:48:55,319 --> 00:48:53,199
signing up to the purchase pledge

1035
00:48:57,959 --> 00:48:55,329
because you're already practicing these

1036
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,969
behaviors and the more people make a

1037
00:49:02,009 --> 00:48:59,440
public commitment especially public

1038
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:02,019
figures like yourself the more likely we

1039
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:04,150
are to sway the political and public

1040
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:06,249
conversation be more oriented toward

1041
00:49:10,829 --> 00:49:08,650
shufen facts I better head over there

1042
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:10,839
straight away glenn Sabarsky thank you

1043
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:13,569
very much thanks so much Richard was a

1044
00:49:36,739 --> 00:49:25,580
[Music]

1045
00:49:41,989 --> 00:49:38,999
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1046
00:49:43,739 --> 00:49:41,999
oh now I don't know if you can hear it

1047
00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:43,749
hopefully not I've got all the windows

1048
00:49:49,470 --> 00:49:45,670
shut but I've got aircraft coming

1049
00:49:51,690 --> 00:49:49,480
overhead now it's weird often I will

1050
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:51,700
record the the voiceover bits for the

1051
00:49:59,069 --> 00:49:54,249
skeptic zone on a Sunday morning here in

1052
00:50:02,519 --> 00:49:59,079
in Sydney and Sunday morning is usually

1053
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:02,529
within certain hours the time of this

1054
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:04,210
corridor being used the one that goes

1055
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:06,450
over my house for Sydney Airport

1056
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:09,730
sometimes I get jets coming over every

1057
00:50:14,489 --> 00:50:11,410
two minutes you can imagine what that's

1058
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:14,499
like for recording but it's a great case

1059
00:50:20,759 --> 00:50:18,970
of something like confirmation bias or

1060
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:20,769
remembering the hits and forgetting the

1061
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:22,450
misses in other words while I'm

1062
00:50:26,849 --> 00:50:25,089
preparing the show writing something or

1063
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:26,859
putting the web page together or doing

1064
00:50:31,249 --> 00:50:29,440
some edits around the same time I don't

1065
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:31,259
notice any planes at all of course I'm

1066
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,249
occupied doing something else but as

1067
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,440
soon as I turn the microphone on and I

1068
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:37,359
say hello and welcome to his room here

1069
00:50:42,690 --> 00:50:40,480
comes a plane yeah I think it's a really

1070
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:42,700
good example of remembering the hits and

1071
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:44,170
forgetting the misses which is something

1072
00:50:49,549 --> 00:50:46,720
we explore often when we think about

1073
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:49,559
psychic research and people who go to

1074
00:50:54,569 --> 00:50:52,960
get reading the psychic readings whether

1075
00:50:54,989 --> 00:50:54,579
the psychic can shatter them for half an

1076
00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:54,999
hour

1077
00:50:59,729 --> 00:50:57,609
tell them many many many many many

1078
00:51:02,640 --> 00:50:59,739
things but only two or three or four

1079
00:51:04,410 --> 00:51:02,650
will make sense and those are the points

1080
00:51:07,769 --> 00:51:04,420
people remember it's all very

1081
00:51:10,229 --> 00:51:07,779
interesting fact if I listen yes he

1082
00:51:12,089 --> 00:51:10,239
comes another one now normally I'd stop

1083
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:12,099
recording but this week I say ah what

1084
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:12,609
the hell

1085
00:51:18,989 --> 00:51:16,720
let the planes fly over well that's a

1086
00:51:20,700 --> 00:51:18,999
big one I wonder what that is I've got

1087
00:51:22,620 --> 00:51:20,710
it you can go to this web page I

1088
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,630
sometimes use flight radar I think it's

1089
00:51:29,759 --> 00:51:24,400
called and I can actually see the planes

1090
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:29,769
flying over by my house now well it

1091
00:51:34,049 --> 00:51:33,369
amuses the cats coming up on next week's

1092
00:51:36,059 --> 00:51:34,059
show

1093
00:51:38,460 --> 00:51:36,069
ah more trivia quiz in fact the last

1094
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:38,470
round as you heard before and it will be

1095
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:44,330
I think that one's coming in from Hong

1096
00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:48,210
Kong I don't know but until then this is

1097
00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:49,950
Richard Saunders a couple of cats and

1098
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:52,320
lots of airplanes signing off from

1099
00:52:01,790 --> 00:51:58,800
Sydney Australia you've been listening

1100
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:01,800
to the skeptic zone podcast please visit

1101
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:06,570
our website at WWDC be for show notes

1102
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:09,870
contacts and to access the bat catalogue

1103
00:52:15,770 --> 00:52:13,920
of episodes going back to 2008 you can

1104
00:52:18,830 --> 00:52:15,780
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1105
00:52:21,110 --> 00:52:18,840
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1106
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:21,120
facebook page or leave a review on

1107
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:22,010
itunes

1108
00:52:28,070 --> 00:52:24,690
you can also support the skeptic zone

1109
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,080
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1110
00:52:33,170 --> 00:52:30,800
podcast is an independent production

1111
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:33,180
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1112
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:35,310
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1113
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:37,650
of Australian skeptics or any other

1114
00:52:48,479 --> 00:52:39,450
sceptical organisation

1115
00:53:03,249 --> 00:53:00,910
hmm what is it look a scratch you want

1116
00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:03,259
to do the webpage this week do you know

1117
00:53:06,849 --> 00:53:04,670
you just wouldn't do the editing for the